Where I live in suburban South Florida I do not have NG available. And the gasoline, propane or diesel fuel cost for powering a full homes electric load with a genset will break the back after 200 hours of operation. So Instead of a genset sized to power the maximim load of my home I chose one sized to keep my refrigerators cold, power my water heater, and some lighting and aux loads that can be switched in as needed. So I chose a 10kw nominal low THD portable dual fuel gasoline/ propane genset and maintain 3 full 100 pound propane tanks and add 50 gallons of gasoline when hurricanes are within a week of landfall. Of course that means no functional air conditioning, and electric stoves and ovens - cooking needs which are replaced by propane camp stoves and electric fans to help in summer heat. I lack funds to bury a 500 gallon LPG tank and to fill it, and to buy a 20kw genset for whole house power. But my dual fuel genset powering only essential loads has proven itself, for 3 weeks use after hurricane Wilma struck and took down every power pole for the last mile feeding my street. Running hot water, cold food, television and power for tools was all we needed to keep us functional to report for work daily. Within a week we could find fuel, even if we had to drive a hundred miles round trip.
Hi Robert. Thank you for putting money into our Wisconsin economy! I see you went for pretty much a “whole house” backup. Our Generac is only 11 kW, for the essentials, but then here in WI we may not need our A/C as much as you Texans do. We’re one step more off-the-grid than you are, though, being on LP. Great article, as usual!
As one of three Texas Public Utility Commissioners who oversaw the restructuring of the Texas electric market from 1999-2003, I could not disagree more with Mr. Bryce's perspective. He lays the "blame" for ERCOT's reliability issues on (in order) renewables, shutting coal plants and market restructuring (associating it with the false bugaboo it was Enron's creation). The alternative universe which Mr. Bryce desires is one of regulated utilities incurring significant cost overruns for nuclear and coal plants, polluting the environment and causing climate change. This world ran up costs for customers (as my colleague Pat Wood taught me we don't call them consumers in real markets) and is the one that led us to abandon a regulated utility model. The real reliability issues, as I and colleagues have written elsewhere https://cgmf.org/p/report-never-again.html, is the result of our successors at the PUCT failing to take the steps required to properly ensure grid reliability.
While there might be validate criticisms of the ERCOT market and its reliability issues, they are not the ones cited by Mr. Bryce.
Sure, politicians are ruining America’s formerly enviable and stable grid, by rushing toward renewables with no understanding of how to back them up. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Generac really needs to partner with the battery companies to include these between the generator and your house. That way, your fuel will last about four times longer, because the generator won’t be running just to keep a light or laptop on.
I bought and Installed my Generac generator in 2012 when the Obama administration declared war on coal fired generation and the beginning of the unreliable grid began. Mine has been filling in the gaps for me and sometimes my neighbors, with their extension cords, for 12 years now. The only thing you must do, is hire a service to maintain it 2 times per year and be absolutely sure you replace the battery, used as power for the starter, every 4 years. Batteries do not last as long as they used to.
I have installed both Solar Panels and Generator, because I am afraid that Ecofascist movement to install crazy amount of solar and wind without the upgrade of the network, together with consumption of energy by AI and artificial suppression of oil and gas will destabilize the network.
The state of political affairs that is good for Generac but bad for the customers of Generate is for the "complex" physical system that is Earth's Climate system to be mistaken for a ""non-complex" physical system by the financial supporters of the modern Democratic Party leading Democratic Party politicians to enact legislation under which the world economy is "de decarbonized" by repl;acement of reliable sources of electric power by unreliable sources.
I am Terry Oldberg, Engineer,/Scientist/Public Policy Researcher, Los Altos Hills, Californaia
"What’s Good For Generac Is Bad For America. And We Can Thank Democrats and Environuts for Foisting a Climate Scam that is Destroying America's Power Grid."
Should you reread the article, you might note that the unreliability of the Texas grid stems, not merely from the use of wind power, but the wholesale commitment to the "competitive market" type of electrical grid in Texas that devalues the grid. That "competitive market" was foisted upon Texans (oh, and also Ohioans) by the Free Market Republicans. There's plenty of blame to go around.
I think that argument is a straw man. A major problem of the grid was the EPA interference with gas pipelines maintenance & use of natural gas consumption to keep the gas flowing in unusually cold weather as well as insistence on use of renewable energy. “Dance with the one who brought you”..nat gas!
If you stick with posting "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah", then your denial of which political ideology is pushing the scam known as "climate change" wouldn't be so apparent.
Oh, and FYI, a "competitive market" doesn't mean shutting down perfectly functional fossil fueled power plants in order to comply with cultic beliefs that humanity is causing global warming.
Geesh. I did not deny that the insane push for solar and wind was contributing to unreliability. I simply note that the problem started 25 years ago. And the "competitive market" approach favors solar and wind because there is no downside to intermittency when the sole measure is kwh. In addition, I said nothing about shutting down coal, but every solar or wind installation really requires a natural gas installation--probably a peaker plant--and certainly in Texas there is plenty of natural gas. And so with these "competitive pricing" models, baseline power is not preferred. I live in the PJM area, and the spot pricing of power in PJM is nothing short of bizarre.
Unfortunately the business community wants the green subsidies more than energy security. The business community should be lobbying for sane policy not money to supplement corporate profits.
I live in CA and installed a 24 kw Generac around 16 months ago. There have been several power outages since then and the generator has worked flawlessly. Since I have two air conditioners and a mini split I had them put in the soft start modules. That upped my price to around $19,000. It is essential to be on the maintenance plan. That costs me $39 per month. For that I get the annual checkup with service and they remotely monitor the generator for issues. Those individuals who don't pay the fee and don't do the service themselves end up with expensive yard art. These generators are very loud and use a ton of natural gas, or propane, when running. If they have to run for a few days your natural gas bill will be very large. However, they are incredibly convenient and they work great. There is a great feeling of knowing that when the power goes out, you can still have electricity and that you will not have to sit in the dark waiting for the power to come back on. It is also nice to know you will not have to buy all new food for the fridge.
You are also reminded once per week when the generator tests itself. Go out and listen to it run for a few minutes. Read the app learn the “tune”. You can plan to change fuel with price if the generator is installed in with construction of home. I had the natural gas feed with pigtail next to my generator but set a 250 gallon propane tank. Include demand, small tank gas hot water tanks for major utilities savings as well
Great article, though having been in the generator business, I would have counseled you to avoid the gigantic generator. 22kW lets' you run anything (if there's fuel available) but most of the time you will be running at 5,10, 20% load, which kills the generator. If you have a heat pump for your heating, then I would have recommended 12-15, with soft starters on your compressors, or upgrade to an inverter-driven compressor About 7-8 if not, and just use one room for AC (a "comfort room". if you have gas heat, a PV+battery needs no maintenance, and has an ROI, long though it may be. An uncle found out the hard way, that you have to have the maintenance plan with a generator, his didn't start last Winter. So pony up for that service agreement and you should be OK. Oh, and start a savings plan for that Gas bill you'll get, if you have a couple of days of runtime on it! I wonder what the Nat Gas supply will be like in another blackout caused by limited gas, with all those highly inefficient generators pulling the supply down further. I appreciate you going back to the Enron Days, as this has been brewing in TX and CA for a very long time.
The energy situation in most developed countries are a manifestation of the structure issues facing many rich nations. Now where else in society is the divided but classes more pronounced then the electric markets. Those who can afford EVs, battery systems, and backup propane & CH4 will be fine while as it will allow them to enjoy carbon waste while the rest will have to live in a carbon budget which means poverty.
Subsidizing “renewables” is sending the wrong market signal and contributing to the instability.
The temporary low skilled (for the most part) jobs renewables create and destroy the permanent lucrative jobs and more robust construction jobs required by reliable generation
We have had a Generac generator for over 26 years. We quickly found out that the power was going out often after we built our home. We bought a whole house generator after having to refill our hot portable in the dark, during storms. It bothered me that the gasoline might overflow and catch fire. So we bought a whole house generator. It worked fine for 25 years until 2 winters ago it stopped during a storm. That spring we bought a new Generac . It’s surprising how much they have improved since our first one.
Where I live in suburban South Florida I do not have NG available. And the gasoline, propane or diesel fuel cost for powering a full homes electric load with a genset will break the back after 200 hours of operation. So Instead of a genset sized to power the maximim load of my home I chose one sized to keep my refrigerators cold, power my water heater, and some lighting and aux loads that can be switched in as needed. So I chose a 10kw nominal low THD portable dual fuel gasoline/ propane genset and maintain 3 full 100 pound propane tanks and add 50 gallons of gasoline when hurricanes are within a week of landfall. Of course that means no functional air conditioning, and electric stoves and ovens - cooking needs which are replaced by propane camp stoves and electric fans to help in summer heat. I lack funds to bury a 500 gallon LPG tank and to fill it, and to buy a 20kw genset for whole house power. But my dual fuel genset powering only essential loads has proven itself, for 3 weeks use after hurricane Wilma struck and took down every power pole for the last mile feeding my street. Running hot water, cold food, television and power for tools was all we needed to keep us functional to report for work daily. Within a week we could find fuel, even if we had to drive a hundred miles round trip.
Hi Robert. Thank you for putting money into our Wisconsin economy! I see you went for pretty much a “whole house” backup. Our Generac is only 11 kW, for the essentials, but then here in WI we may not need our A/C as much as you Texans do. We’re one step more off-the-grid than you are, though, being on LP. Great article, as usual!
As one of three Texas Public Utility Commissioners who oversaw the restructuring of the Texas electric market from 1999-2003, I could not disagree more with Mr. Bryce's perspective. He lays the "blame" for ERCOT's reliability issues on (in order) renewables, shutting coal plants and market restructuring (associating it with the false bugaboo it was Enron's creation). The alternative universe which Mr. Bryce desires is one of regulated utilities incurring significant cost overruns for nuclear and coal plants, polluting the environment and causing climate change. This world ran up costs for customers (as my colleague Pat Wood taught me we don't call them consumers in real markets) and is the one that led us to abandon a regulated utility model. The real reliability issues, as I and colleagues have written elsewhere https://cgmf.org/p/report-never-again.html, is the result of our successors at the PUCT failing to take the steps required to properly ensure grid reliability.
While there might be validate criticisms of the ERCOT market and its reliability issues, they are not the ones cited by Mr. Bryce.
Sure, politicians are ruining America’s formerly enviable and stable grid, by rushing toward renewables with no understanding of how to back them up. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Generac really needs to partner with the battery companies to include these between the generator and your house. That way, your fuel will last about four times longer, because the generator won’t be running just to keep a light or laptop on.
I bought and Installed my Generac generator in 2012 when the Obama administration declared war on coal fired generation and the beginning of the unreliable grid began. Mine has been filling in the gaps for me and sometimes my neighbors, with their extension cords, for 12 years now. The only thing you must do, is hire a service to maintain it 2 times per year and be absolutely sure you replace the battery, used as power for the starter, every 4 years. Batteries do not last as long as they used to.
Timely. We are in the process of installing one.
I have installed both Solar Panels and Generator, because I am afraid that Ecofascist movement to install crazy amount of solar and wind without the upgrade of the network, together with consumption of energy by AI and artificial suppression of oil and gas will destabilize the network.
The state of political affairs that is good for Generac but bad for the customers of Generate is for the "complex" physical system that is Earth's Climate system to be mistaken for a ""non-complex" physical system by the financial supporters of the modern Democratic Party leading Democratic Party politicians to enact legislation under which the world economy is "de decarbonized" by repl;acement of reliable sources of electric power by unreliable sources.
I am Terry Oldberg, Engineer,/Scientist/Public Policy Researcher, Los Altos Hills, Californaia
1-650-518-6636 (mobile)
terry_oldberg@yahoo.com (email)
There was a typo in the headline, let me fix it:
"What’s Good For Generac Is Bad For America. And We Can Thank Democrats and Environuts for Foisting a Climate Scam that is Destroying America's Power Grid."
Should you reread the article, you might note that the unreliability of the Texas grid stems, not merely from the use of wind power, but the wholesale commitment to the "competitive market" type of electrical grid in Texas that devalues the grid. That "competitive market" was foisted upon Texans (oh, and also Ohioans) by the Free Market Republicans. There's plenty of blame to go around.
I think that argument is a straw man. A major problem of the grid was the EPA interference with gas pipelines maintenance & use of natural gas consumption to keep the gas flowing in unusually cold weather as well as insistence on use of renewable energy. “Dance with the one who brought you”..nat gas!
If you stick with posting "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah", then your denial of which political ideology is pushing the scam known as "climate change" wouldn't be so apparent.
Oh, and FYI, a "competitive market" doesn't mean shutting down perfectly functional fossil fueled power plants in order to comply with cultic beliefs that humanity is causing global warming.
Geesh. I did not deny that the insane push for solar and wind was contributing to unreliability. I simply note that the problem started 25 years ago. And the "competitive market" approach favors solar and wind because there is no downside to intermittency when the sole measure is kwh. In addition, I said nothing about shutting down coal, but every solar or wind installation really requires a natural gas installation--probably a peaker plant--and certainly in Texas there is plenty of natural gas. And so with these "competitive pricing" models, baseline power is not preferred. I live in the PJM area, and the spot pricing of power in PJM is nothing short of bizarre.
Unfortunately the business community wants the green subsidies more than energy security. The business community should be lobbying for sane policy not money to supplement corporate profits.
I live in CA and installed a 24 kw Generac around 16 months ago. There have been several power outages since then and the generator has worked flawlessly. Since I have two air conditioners and a mini split I had them put in the soft start modules. That upped my price to around $19,000. It is essential to be on the maintenance plan. That costs me $39 per month. For that I get the annual checkup with service and they remotely monitor the generator for issues. Those individuals who don't pay the fee and don't do the service themselves end up with expensive yard art. These generators are very loud and use a ton of natural gas, or propane, when running. If they have to run for a few days your natural gas bill will be very large. However, they are incredibly convenient and they work great. There is a great feeling of knowing that when the power goes out, you can still have electricity and that you will not have to sit in the dark waiting for the power to come back on. It is also nice to know you will not have to buy all new food for the fridge.
Wrong, and wrong on so many levels ...
- You're paying $468 plus tax for something even the laziest can do in ten minutes with NO TOOLS, plus maybe $25 in oil and filters every two years.
- Generac supplies a "free" app that will give you the exact same info they have.
- A Generac 24 kw nat-gas powered generator costs about $1.15 per hour to run.
You are also reminded once per week when the generator tests itself. Go out and listen to it run for a few minutes. Read the app learn the “tune”. You can plan to change fuel with price if the generator is installed in with construction of home. I had the natural gas feed with pigtail next to my generator but set a 250 gallon propane tank. Include demand, small tank gas hot water tanks for major utilities savings as well
Well, you can set the exercise schedule to what you want ... mine is every two weeks.
Should have alternative fuel propane tank if you are allowed to have one, Nat gas maybe shutoff in tornado or flood.
Great article, though having been in the generator business, I would have counseled you to avoid the gigantic generator. 22kW lets' you run anything (if there's fuel available) but most of the time you will be running at 5,10, 20% load, which kills the generator. If you have a heat pump for your heating, then I would have recommended 12-15, with soft starters on your compressors, or upgrade to an inverter-driven compressor About 7-8 if not, and just use one room for AC (a "comfort room". if you have gas heat, a PV+battery needs no maintenance, and has an ROI, long though it may be. An uncle found out the hard way, that you have to have the maintenance plan with a generator, his didn't start last Winter. So pony up for that service agreement and you should be OK. Oh, and start a savings plan for that Gas bill you'll get, if you have a couple of days of runtime on it! I wonder what the Nat Gas supply will be like in another blackout caused by limited gas, with all those highly inefficient generators pulling the supply down further. I appreciate you going back to the Enron Days, as this has been brewing in TX and CA for a very long time.
The energy situation in most developed countries are a manifestation of the structure issues facing many rich nations. Now where else in society is the divided but classes more pronounced then the electric markets. Those who can afford EVs, battery systems, and backup propane & CH4 will be fine while as it will allow them to enjoy carbon waste while the rest will have to live in a carbon budget which means poverty.
Subsidizing “renewables” is sending the wrong market signal and contributing to the instability.
The temporary low skilled (for the most part) jobs renewables create and destroy the permanent lucrative jobs and more robust construction jobs required by reliable generation
We have had a Generac generator for over 26 years. We quickly found out that the power was going out often after we built our home. We bought a whole house generator after having to refill our hot portable in the dark, during storms. It bothered me that the gasoline might overflow and catch fire. So we bought a whole house generator. It worked fine for 25 years until 2 winters ago it stopped during a storm. That spring we bought a new Generac . It’s surprising how much they have improved since our first one.